FLOP / TURN problems

First hand: Not the best hand to raise on the flop, but when they donk, we like to raise, so it's alright.

Second hand: Fold preflop. Unless you have a read on the table, KQ will be hard to play UTG. Just fold and tighten up your game. Same reason as for the Q10 hand in the other thread.

Third hand: I played Kimbo earlier, and he seems pretty tight and straightforward. Fold pre IMO. Be careful who's UTG raise you 3bet from the CO. First, his range needs to be wide, and seconds, you want him to have a high fold to 3bet% and a very tight 4bet%(ie 0%). I know you don't have stats, but you can still pay attention. What I don't want you to do is think 'i have 10c8c, I'm going to 3bet and take it down' You need to fold that hand in that spot often. I would have given up as well on the turn.

Fourth hand: Q is a great card to barrel here. Bet 15 and TID.

Fifht hand: Again, fold preflop. I don't like your barrel on the river, you just threw away money there. Maybe bet 15 instead of 13 on the turn. But again, I don't get into that spot cuz I don't raise pre with KQ UTG unless the table is very tight. And maybe choose a better villain to barrel, I mean a worst player.

Sixth hand: I think you can barrel any hand that improves your equity, A K J 10 and any spade. I would barrel small, and try to make him fold a pocket pair or weak float. Depends on the player, though, don't want to be barreling into tight station.

Salut les boys!
J'étais pas revenu parce que j'étais into deep dans l'analyse de ma game. Je spot mes faiblesse (à l'aide de tracker et de tableratings). C'est d'la job en sacrament de s'auto-analyser, d'être objectif dans des situations où TU es le sujet... Je vais vous poster dequoi là-dessus sous peu. Pour l'instant, les mains à Pat et les commentaires de Marco.

First hand : Personnellement j'aurais aussi raiser le flop. Pourquoi c'est pas un bon raise en générale? Le gars y donk-bet sur un scary-board. Moi d'aucune façon j'abandonne ni le lead ni la main dans ce spot là. À moins que mon tracker me dise que c'est un tight player fit-or-fold style...

Second hand : Voix-tu, moi c'est l'inverse que je fais Marco. Je raise à moins que j'ai un read sur la table. Je fold si les hijack, cutoff ou button (au moins un d'eux) est LAG. Sinon, si la table est généralement tight, passive, ou que le BB est donk, je raise pour sûr. C'est donc presque 50%/50% raise/fold dans ce spot là. (J'aurais joué la main pareil comme Pat dans le 50% du temps que je l'aurais joué).

Third hand : Je fais effectivement ce genre de jeu uniquement si j'ai des infos favorable sur le villain. Et quand un gars call un CBet avec un As sur le board, j'ai aussi beaucoup tendance à abandonner. Par contre, étant donné son turn check, j'aurais peut-être callé la river. 28$ dans 80$(le call doit être bon à peine plus qu'un fois sur 4)... et y'a des bonnes chances que villain ai flush-draw, et à sa place, avec flush draw, j'aurais pe fait comme lui. Caller le flop, sachant que si t'as l'as, y'a un peu de value sur sa flush, et si t'as pas l'as, et que je pogne pas, c'est facile de ramsser le pot sur la river si t'as abandonner sur le turn. All-in-all, 90% je fold pre, sinon, 90% je CBet, 90% j'abandonne le turn, et 75% je call la river.

Fourth hand : Quand villain float mon Cbet on the flop et que Q-K-A tombe on the turn (surtout si j'en ai pas dans mes mains), je bet encore. Surtout K ou A, trop des belles cartes pour punir un floater.

Fifth hand : Deux exemple sur deux que KQ UTG se ramasse hors position dans un pot où on investi plus de 16-17% de son stack avec K high. Ça m'arrive trop souvent aussi je crois.
J'adore le turn bet par exemple. Mais pour moi c le white flag on the river.

Sixth hand : Si TonyGGGG est un solid joueur, tricky, souvent je call pre (pas toujours, mais j'essaie de varier mon jeu) parce que je n'aime pas être hors position dans un gros pot avec A high contre un excellent tricky player... Sinon t'es condamné à la jouer exactement comme tu l'as fait (du moins c ce que j'aurais fait aussi) et condamné à perdre 33% de ton stack avec A high hors position sans showdown ni info final sur villain...

First hand: I'm saying it's not the best hand because it's a drawy board, but I'm also saying we have to do it, and we take it down often when the player donks into us and we raise. So I'm all for raising. I might even like a call on the turn since you still have equity in the hand. He could still have a flush draw, a worse ten, or bottom pair, and 11 into 29 gives an ok price.

Second hand: I know 100nl is still low limit, but there's a lot of floating/3betting going on and the table dynamic on most tables is aggresive. When you raise KQo UTG you effectively are asking to play a pot out of position with a hand that will be though to play. Out of position, it's harder to control the size of the pot, and that makes it difficult to play this kind of hand hand profitably. You'll have regs floating/3betting you, regfish floating/3betting you, 2 stations calling, people squeezing, and there's not much you can do about it unless you plan on spewing. You'll probably end up losing big pots or your initial raise and winning small pots once in a while.

When I have a read on the table that nobody raises, and maybe I have 2 tighter players behind me and 1 bad station, then maybe I loosen up my range a little bit.

At 25nl, it's definitely profitable to play a wider range of hands in every position, and KQ is certainly fine UTG. You have less players that are capable of exploiting your range at those stakes. So I guess we're both right. haha

Third hand: Stay creative, though, I like the play with that kind of hand, but against the right opponent. A vast majority of villain are fit-or-fold on the flop, and a lot of them think it's profitable to setmine against a 3bet all the time, and they also have suited connectors, worse hands in there range. I think I cbet on 90% of flops and they fold very often, even A high.

Fourth hand: yyyeah

Fifth hand: Could it just prove my point in hand two. Well no cuz it's only two hands, but yknow.

Sixth hand: Yup me and Archimede are in agreement. Basically, there's 2 ways to see this. 3bet for value, like if villain 4bets any too cards like crazy, or if villain is suspicious of you because you've been 3betting a lot, won a big pot without showdown previously, etc. Also, you can call to keep in the hands that you dominate, KQ AJ AQ A10 KJ K10, hands that would fold to a 3bet perhaps but would give you at least 2 streets of value on the flop if you both hit. Maybe you also want to call to keep in big donkey in the BB in, for same reason. So yeah, we need to mix it up a little bit depending on the situation and game flow.

By the way, thanks a lot for your input Archimede. There's nothing better than to have a good debate about these hands in order to understand deeper these situations and the game in general. We really appreciate it!!!!

Moi aussi j'aime ça au boutte jaser de main comme ça!

Et aussi, main #3, rendu sur la river, dans mon explication, le call semble t'il bon??

My read on the player was that he was nitty, so I'd say no, you don't have the proper odds to call his bet and it's probably some desperate attempt at getting value on the river.

My read may be way off, though, and that's not much of an answer, so let's use simple combinatorics to get a clearer picture:

If he has a few flush draws in his range(and I doubt he has many), It would probably be KdQd, QdJd, 10d9d 7d6d 6d5d. I may avoid some combination for the flush draw, or may use too much, but let's use this as an average.

He also has AK in his range. With one ace gone, there's 12(3aces*4kings) possible AK combination remaining. AQ is in his range, but let's say only AQ suited, so 3 combination. Let's assume he would check back KK QQ JJ 1010 because he has showdown value, but he would turn 99 into a bluff and try to make you fold a bigger pocket. That's 16 more combinations.

So:

12 AK
16 99
1 Flush draw turned into straight
3 AQ

You are behind for 32 combination of hands, and you're good against 4 combination of missed flush draws(one of them made straight)

The pot gives you 3-1 and you're only good 8-1 of the times, so you don't have odds to call.

I guess there's just not that many missed flush draws out there compared to made hands.

Of course, I oversimplified it. He might be floating with air some of the times, but even that wouldn't be enough to make it profitable I think. I avoided sets and other flush combination that would hit straight as well.

First time I actually do this, lol, so I might be off somewhere.

Off or not, ça semble faire tout de même du sens. Si comme tu dis, t'as assez d'infos sur le joueur pour savoir qu'il est nitty, le fold semble obv. Mais si J'ai aucune stats, et que je considère que l'average des joueurs est average, ou que c un 26/21, ou un 39/19... le call doit être correct. Où est ligne du call/fold???

Je crois que c'est un fold 95% du temps, au 100nl en tout cas. Mais jpense bien pas mal tout les nl.

La seul maniere que ca peut etre profitable c'est si ta un read solide sur un joueur. Ya juste pas assez de combinaison de flush qui call 3bet/callcbet/bluffriver pour contrer le fait que la plupart du temps, il le fait pour de la value avec une main plus solide. Combien du joueurs tu crois qui call des 3bet pre, ensuite un cbet avec de l'air, et ensuite fait un bluff sur la river apres avoir checker le turn? Beaucoup moins que 5% a mon avit.

La vaste majoriter du temps, l'air va folder apres ton cbet sur le flop.

Ensuite, si tu decide de mettre plus de combinaison de flush draw dans son range, ben faut aussi que tu mettre des low pockets mal jouer qui on frapper le flop/turn/river, des flush draw qui inclut le 3 comme 43, 53, etc, AK AQ AJ car s'il call avec plus de mains suited, il call aussi avec plein dautre main.

Finalement, sans faire le calcule, j'imagine que le call est pas mal -EV pas mal tout le temps.

Ça fait ben du sens.
Comme je disais hier, je suis entrain de scruter mon jeu, trouver mes failles, et ma plus grosse faiblesse, c'est mes river call... Je recherche toujours à me donner une raison de caller. Et, probablement, j'augmente mes pot-odds dans mon calcul, qui fausse donc toutes les données, et fait en sorte que je gagne 3BB/100Mains, au lieu de peut-être 5BB/100Mains et probablement plus... Très dur à corriger...

Thx!

Yup. No problems I like doing this haha.